The Clan Lord Sentinel

Frog wrote:
..So although [Mikan Z] hasn't been played in years it still passed 7th among the top rankwhore fighters?

Yep, <3 library ranks.

I passed seventh too.

Taryn wrote: Yes, I know that. That was part of my point. If Ranger abilties are so overpowering, and Champion abilities so nerfed, then the highest ranked fighters in the game would have chosen to be Rangers and not Champions. That they've chosen NOT to be a Ranger implies that, whatever their complaints to others might be, instinctively their subconscious calculator has told them that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

It's an unconvincing argument to complain about someone's advantages without recognizing the balancing disadvantages.

Taryn.

There is no disadvantage, other than the small rank requirement, to being a ranger.

The top fighters have more champs than rangers simply because champions were out long before rangers were. A better question is how many super fighters picked being a champ over being a ranger after both were out? I dont know of any.

The rest of us who didnt become rangers yet prolly didnt do it because right now there is no real need. I already fucked my balance over because of areas designed around bladers (and now rangers), I cant undo that without paying a heavy price in ranks. So whats the point of being a ranger?

Wait till things that require 900 atkus show up next year, then you will see super fighters flocking to ranger.

Icy wrote:I failed miserably on 7th (nothing studied) and retried 6th with the nerf. Didn't kill anything and only managed to get a midnight wendecka to yellow. Thanks for this.

Since you were never really strong enough for 6th anyway, it sounds like this is working as intended. Put your red belt back on, if you can even still pass 5th.

Michael wrote:The top fighters have more champs than rangers simply because champions were out long before rangers were. A better question is how many super fighters picked being a champ over being a ranger after both were out? I dont know of any.

Mujin-kun.

Daimoth wrote:

Michael wrote:The top fighters have more champs than rangers simply because champions were out long before rangers were. A better question is how many super fighters picked being a champ over being a ranger after both were out? I dont know of any.

Mujin-kun.

I did too, also. But at the time the Ranger class was still fairly new and their effectiveness wasn't well known or well established. I had also started training the Fell before Rangers came out (due to the large gap in 400-550+ Atkus-requiring areas at the time, I wanted a simple Atkus-tool that wouldn't interfere too much with my normal training), so having to undo those ranks and adjust to another style would have been a little lame. Also, at the time Goss ranks didn't count toward studied bonuses like they do now, you had to train with another trainer (Sindyth) for that. So in order to become a Ranger you had to spend at least 80 ranks in the crappy old Goss, and since I didn't really care about clearing NWF or Vermine Tree faster, it seemed like a waste to me.

But as it is *now*, if I could undo becoming a Champion, along with the last 380 ranks I spent on Evus and the ranks I spent on Fell/Earthstones to become a Ranger instead, I would. (And no, I'm not going to use Untrainus and lose years worth of ranks for it) I may feel differently as the GMs add new areas and monsters, but right now I could study every monster I care about hunting and still come out ahead rank-wise. That, to me, seems overpowered and broken.

Gorvin wrote:

Daimoth wrote:

Michael wrote:The top fighters have more champs than rangers simply because champions were out long before rangers were. A better question is how many super fighters picked being a champ over being a ranger after both were out? I dont know of any.

Mujin-kun.

I did too, also. But at the time the Ranger class was still fairly new and their effectiveness wasn't well known or well established. I had also started training the Fell before Rangers came out (due to the large gap in 400-550+ Atkus-requiring areas at the time, I wanted a simple Atkus-tool that wouldn't interfere too much with my normal training), so having to undo those ranks and adjust to another style would have been a little lame. Also, at the time Goss ranks didn't count toward studied bonuses like they do now, you had to train with another trainer (Sindyth) for that. So in order to become a Ranger you had to spend at least 80 ranks in the crappy old Goss, and since I didn't really care about clearing NWF or Vermine Tree faster, it seemed like a waste to me.

But as it is *now*, if I could undo becoming a Champion, along with the last 380 ranks I spent on Evus and the ranks I spent on Fell/Earthstones to become a Ranger instead, I would. (And no, I'm not going to use Untrainus and lose years worth of ranks for it) I may feel differently as the GMs add new areas and monsters, but right now I could study every monster I care about hunting and still come out ahead rank-wise. That, to me, seems overpowered and broken.

What Gorvin said. I should have been more specific, but I meant after we knew how good rangers were. I dont know of any super fighters who made that choice.

Michael wrote: What Gorvin said. I should have been more specific, but I meant after we knew how good rangers were. I dont know of any super fighters who made that choice.

Mujin-kun...

She didn't become a Champion until September of this year.

And I believe her decision was related to the advantage of having situational Atkus (for tok'hans, the Sarra creatures, earthwyrms, etc) that could be used only when necessary.

Kerrah wrote:I believe her decision was related to the advantage of having situational Atkus (for tok'hans, the Sarra creatures, earthwyrms, etc) that could be used only when necessary.

I find this suggestion intriguing. To my eye and mind, rangers reign supreme as users of situational Atkus.

Kani wrote:

Kerrah wrote:I believe her decision was related to the advantage of having situational Atkus (for tok'hans, the Sarra creatures, earthwyrms, etc) that could be used only when necessary.

I find this suggestion intriguing. To my eye and mind, rangers reign supreme as users of situational Atkus.

But rangers have to learn creatures to be able to use the goss atkus bonus, and fell bladers don't.

On the topic of testing, arent the tests designed to be a benchmark as to what you can kill in the wild? Why are rangers not allowed to show what they can kill in the wild? Its just a title after all.

Lorikeet wrote:

Kani wrote:

Kerrah wrote:I believe her decision was related to the advantage of having situational Atkus (for tok'hans, the Sarra creatures, earthwyrms, etc) that could be used only when necessary.

I find this suggestion intriguing. To my eye and mind, rangers reign supreme as users of situational Atkus.

But rangers have to learn creatures to be able to use the goss atkus bonus, and fell bladers don't.

But if there are a small or finite amount of creatures they are interested in hitting, this investment is minimal, and partly 'free' (from the Duvin ranks given as a bonus from gossamer). I do understand where you're coming from, I just disagree that fell blade/Champion is a better efficiency choice in the long run than gossamer/Ranger. Nerf rangers!

Icy wrote:On the topic of testing, arent the tests designed to be a benchmark as to what you can kill in the wild? Why are rangers not allowed to show what they can kill in the wild? Its just a title after all.

Same thing goes for Champions to a certain extent. Until I get more base Atkus, there are creatures in the 8th circle test that I won't be able to hit for quite some time, even though I could backstab them and kill them in the wild.

Kani wrote:But if there are a small or finite amount of creatures they are interested in hitting, this investment is minimal, and partly 'free' (from the Duvin ranks given as a bonus from gossamer). I do understand where you're coming from, I just disagree that fell blade/Champion is a better efficiency choice in the long run than gossamer/Ranger. Nerf rangers!

While gossamer is much more the all-purpose choice, if we're just taking into account accuracy, fell and gossamer have the same rank-efficiency. There are also so many different creatures now above the 500 Atkus range, that individuals would need well beyond their Goss-Duvin bonus to learn them all. Plus effort and energy goss takes to get up to par, equals fell being a superior low rank-input crutch blade.

That being said, gossamer's danger is in how profusely people specialize in it. 80-goss Rangers aren't overpowering. The 300-350 ones are.

So in conclusion, both blades have their uses. Fell is a situational tool. Gossamer is a blade to build your entirety around.

Icy wrote:On the topic of testing, arent the tests designed to be a benchmark as to what you can kill in the wild? Why are rangers not allowed to show what they can kill in the wild? Its just a title after all.

I thought it was more meant to be a benchmark of overall strength than your ability to kill specific monsters. A Ranger studying all the test monsters would be a specialist at passing tests, just as a Ranger studying top-end Noids becomes a specialist in the Pitch/Slate Caves, easily surpassing equivalently ranked Fighters in those areas. A Ranger cheesing their way through tests like that only shows that they're good at killing those specific monsters, not how good they are overall. Rangers are supposed to be better at killing some monsters and worse at others, and I think it'd only be fair if the tests reflected that in some way.

Kani wrote: But if there are a small or finite amount of creatures they are interested in hitting, this investment is minimal, and partly 'free' (from the Duvin ranks given as a bonus from gossamer). I do understand where you're coming from, I just disagree that fell blade/Champion is a better efficiency choice in the long run than gossamer/Ranger. Nerf rangers!

But if you only use the Goss on a few select monsters you also run the risk of becoming gimped against high defense monsters you don't fight frequently or want to bother studying. You can use morphs to make up for this, but they require a larger investment in spirit ranks and if you're a high level Fighter they're potentially not very powerful compared to your normal stats (Morphs only give you specific sets of stats, whereas the Fell adds on to what you have). I think overall the Ranger path is only really worthwhile if you intend to study lots of things.

[Double post. Oops.]