The Clan Lord Sentinel

Slartibartfast wrote: I won't go into all my considerations, but I will say it would be impossible to reduce the gap without creating new monsters to fit specific requirements. That alone wouldn't solve all the problems, but it would move it from impossible to difficult. What do you think of edited monsters which, at least to start with, probably wouldn't be found in the wild?

Thats fine as long as they turn up somewhere else too.

I've considered it, and I continue to, but I always come to Eldon's conclusion. Yes, it will take longer to advance to the upper level circles. But they will mean a lot more.

Its worth the time and effort to keep progression even. Jumps in tests not only dont make sense, they are unfun.

Slartibartfast wrote: I won't go into all my considerations, but I will say it would be impossible to reduce the gap without creating new monsters to fit specific requirements. That alone wouldn't solve all the problems, but it would move it from impossible to difficult. What do you think of edited monsters which, at least to start with, probably wouldn't be found in the wild?

I am opposed to test specific monsters also. Being able to test your abilities for the next test in the wild and in the Coliseum is a lot of fun.

Speaking of which, would it be possible to allow us to add any test critters to the Coliseum? I think some of the beasts I've heard may be in the test cannot be added as of now.

Michael wrote:

Slartibartfast wrote: I won't go into all my considerations, but I will say it would be impossible to reduce the gap without creating new monsters to fit specific requirements. That alone wouldn't solve all the problems, but it would move it from impossible to difficult. What do you think of edited monsters which, at least to start with, probably wouldn't be found in the wild?

Thats fine as long as they turn up somewhere else too.

That would be my feeling also. It would be odd for them to be in the test only. If they are related to other critters in the world just populate them in CL, more critters is always good

I'm not opposed to test specific monsters, but they have to have abilities in that a real world monster would/could have without total imbalancing the contest: IE. you could toss in a Crimson noid that doesn't shoot webs in one test, or a non-rock throwing Ancient Greymyr in another. But not a pulling shark with a big freaking laser on its head.

noivad wrote:I'm not opposed to test specific monsters, but they have to have abilities in that a real world monster would/could have without total imbalancing the contest: IE. you could toss in a Crimson noid that doesn't shoot webs in one test, or a non-rock throwing Ancient Greymyr in another. But not a pulling shark with a big freaking laser on its head.

Personally, I don't see how it matters much, as long as it's the same for all fighters taking the test. So, if Slarty took a Hatred and dressed it up in a chicken outfit and called it Not-so-Super Chicken, it wouldn't matter to my fighter(s). Of course, my caveat is that it has to be same Not-so-Super Chicken with the same stats for everyone. That's only fair.

Eldon wrote:So, if Slarty took a Hatred and dressed it up in a chicken outfit and called it Not-so-Super Chicken, it wouldn't matter to my fighter(s).

He of course would have to pay licensing fees for the use of the name of course .

"I pot in every chicken!"

Eldon wrote:

noivad wrote:I'm not opposed to test specific monsters, but they have to have abilities in that a real world monster would/could have without total imbalancing the contest: IE. you could toss in a Crimson noid that doesn't shoot webs in one test, or a non-rock throwing Ancient Greymyr in another. But not a pulling shark with a big freaking laser on its head.

Personally, I don't see how it matters much, as long as it's the same for all fighters taking the test. So, if Slarty took a Hatred and dressed it up in a chicken outfit and called it Not-so-Super Chicken, it wouldn't matter to my fighter(s). Of course, my caveat is that it has to be same Not-so-Super Chicken with the same stats for everyone. That's only fair.

does this mean that monster stats in tests don't vary?

Raul wrote:

Eldon wrote:

noivad wrote:I'm not opposed to test specific monsters, but they have to have abilities in that a real world monster would/could have without total imbalancing the contest: IE. you could toss in a Crimson noid that doesn't shoot webs in one test, or a non-rock throwing Ancient Greymyr in another. But not a pulling shark with a big freaking laser on its head.

Personally, I don't see how it matters much, as long as it's the same for all fighters taking the test. So, if Slarty took a Hatred and dressed it up in a chicken outfit and called it Not-so-Super Chicken, it wouldn't matter to my fighter(s). Of course, my caveat is that it has to be same Not-so-Super Chicken with the same stats for everyone. That's only fair.

does this mean that monster stats in tests don't vary?

Correct.

And Eldon, almost all the people who are worried about it are either:

Rangers, who want to be able to directly study the monster, or at least get family bonus.

Or

People who feel the same as Diomedes. Or people who fit into both categories (like me).

These tests also need to be balanced around the existance of ranges. Since rangers can study into EZ mode for a lot of critters, we need a few critters in each test that are impossible to study.

Having a ranger 2 shot everything in a test because they can learn it isnt exactly what we are after.

Michael wrote:These tests also need to be balanced around the existance of ranges. Since rangers can study into EZ mode for a lot of critters, we need a few critters in each test that are impossible to study.

Having a ranger 2 shot everything in a test because they can learn it isnt exactly what we are after.

Creatures that are impossible to study would be utter BS.

The ranger studies are temporary Atkus. Once these creatures yeild no experience then the ranks you spent studing are wasted. They can partially apply to another family member. There are many families.. there are many creatures.

True Atkus is always applicable to any creature.. you add to it. it grows and grows..

I myself have no less than 65 creatures studied. I get experience from less than half of those now. The ranger path is to continously train atkus and duvin.. You can't just get x and be "good" like you can with fellblade and bloodblade.

This is the cost that rangers pay, continuously paid ranks to remain at the same offensive level as you are accustomed to.

You might say 'well, you should just train normal atkus".. But I could tell you to train something other than whoring detha.. You might be getting kills from some of your slaughters if you had just got it from a combo trainer, your kill rate would be much better as well.. But that is how you chose to train.. and this is how i chose to train..

I am a fighter.. these are the tools I use. So I should be able to use them to test my ability as a fighter. I do not ask for the ability to morph during the tests because that would only measure the creatures ability at passing the test.

I admit I find you very amusing. You constantly drone on about bloodblades and now rangers. How everything is soooo unbalanced and they need to be stopped lest they approach your level of 1337. The funny part is you gained most of your ranks by twinking for some big fighters on KI and you act as if these were some how "hard earned ranks." Please, we all know KI is the most unbalanced place in the world of clanlord. I can get a good 2 ranks each hunt there.

I'm not saying it doesn't require a modicum of skill, nor am I asking that KI be changed. Just see the irony would you? Grow up and stop worrying about all the subclasses coming to tower over you and your detha.

I'm well aware this may yield a big flailing of arms and four-letter-word peppered reply, and I also know he who taps on the monkeys cage must beware the crap-flinging that will surely follow.

-Hoggle

Michael's point is valid I think. But allowing unlearnable creatures seems silly to me.

A fresh third circle ranger can train Histia up to 500 and 300 goss and pass all of the available tests by learning each creature in them, plus a few supporting ranks (50-100.). This would have to be one highly specialized Ranger of course, but it is quite possible for Rangers to pass these tests years before base fighters with the same number of ranks.

Do you know what 300 goss ranks would require in balthus to support? umm.. 500 histia?? Talk about a lot of mispent ranks early on.. You would require some atkus to hit your hardest too I believe.

But, If someone wants to go waste all these ranks and gear their whole character just twards passing a test.. let them!

These are just tests no different than animal challenges.. you dont level-up at the end of each one..

"OMG, IM LEVEL 7 FITER NOW, U CANT BEAT ME!!"

The 7th test seemed very well-done to me. Haze will pass it by a hair. I was expecting an easier test, but this is good.

I failed the 8th test miserably. Which also seems good. When I passed the 5th test, the 6th test was miserable as well. I won't really be in a position to whine about the 8th test until I have some more defense and have tried it a few more times. For me at least, it seems like the jump between 7th and 8th will be maybe 600-800 ranks. As of now it is a slaughter.

Daimoth wrote:Michael's point is valid I think. But allowing unlearnable creatures seems silly to me.

A fresh third circle ranger can train Histia up to 500 and 300 goss and pass all of the available tests by learning each creature in them, plus a few supporting ranks (50-100.). This would have to be one highly specialized Ranger of course, but it is quite possible for Rangers to pass these tests years before base fighters with the same number of ranks.

I don't think you can make unlearnable creatures either, makes no sense. Also, even if a ranger of a low amount of ranks did pass all teh tests by learning them, as Hoggle said they would need a fair amount of ranks, and just passing the test doesn't make you a good 7 or 8 • fighter, it just means you passed. We all know the tests are a guide and there is much more to being a good fighter than a red/black/blue etc belt

Michael wrote:These tests also need to be balanced around the existance of ranges. Since rangers can study into EZ mode for a lot of critters, we need a few critters in each test that are impossible to study.

Having a ranger 2 shot everything in a test because they can learn it isnt exactly what we are after.

The Ice Greymyr in 8th c is essentially unlearnable. I think there's been one successful Abyss 2 hunt, ever.

I don't have a problem with that kind of 'unlearnable.'