The Clan Lord Sentinel

The issue of a Windows client has come up in many many threads recently (and, okay, not-so-recently).



The topics specifically dedicated to them ( viewtopic.php?t=9 , viewtopic.php?t=627&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 ) degenerated into questions about emulators or "Windows sucks but it's a good idea."



What I'm interested in is the desirability and feasability of such a thing.



I'm not a coder. I do, however know people who are. One who is just generally good, and the other who is studying specifically to code games. They're just students, but they've already sold their work commercially, so they're good at what they do.



Players: If it were possible to hire people to create a Windows client, would you be willing to pay for it? That is, perhaps a one-time fee for all current clanners to support the development of this client, or a small increase in the monthly fee until the client was done.



GMs: Can you say what would be needed for this project? Sprinkled across the other threads on the forum are details about what makes Clanlord go and what someone would need to do to make that work for Windows. Ann said:

Now all we need is a good, independent, experienced Windows C/C++ programmer who will work for next to nothing and can work with the existing code to make something we can maintain in the long run.

Is this it? Or are there other details that would need to be taken into consideration?



If it seems feasible, and the player base is willing to support it, then I would like to try to get this done. I can try to find people who would be willing to work for a reasonable amount of money (though I'm not sure I could get people to do the traditional CL work-for-nothing thing) to do the project, and get them in touch with the GMs. It's no guarantee; I'm not sure if there exist people with the neccessary skills/free time/ability to work for not-so-much-money that would be interested in taking on this project, but there are some likely candidates and I would like to see whether this is possible. I don't want to go to them without knowing what I'm talking about, so I'm asking you guys first.

Though he didn't know it, Sareth said exactly what needed to be said on this subject:



Four or five years ago, peak clanning could reach 140-150 people, more durring events and invasions. Currently, we seem lucky to exceed 60, and I've seen low points where the number of clanners was single digit.



Clan Lords is on the verge of death from lack of interest.



There are a number of windows players who will play CL simply because they still cling tightly to their ancient machines. CL would be perfect for them.



Frankly, I don't think DT has a choice here. It's either tap into the windows market or watch as their Mac player base continues to dwindle into nothingness, and no amount of complaining about C++ is going to change that.



I don't think CL can afford the whollup to player base it's going to receive from WoW when it comes out. Pets, skills, the ability to resurrect players to save them from exp loss, the ability to solo...I hate to admit it, but I'm currently scheduled to depart on that train when it arrives, and a big factor in that is all of my Windows-using friends will be able to join me in WoW...



-D

Oh, I knew it, Dest, I just didn't think it was topical to that discussion to bring up a Windoze client. But yes, you are correct. A Windoze client would bring a new influx into the game, possible saving it.



The chief objection I've heard in the past used to fight against a Windoze client is a belief Windoze players would destroy the character of the game, that they tend to be more into l33t d00dism, etc. Frankly I'm not too worried about this. We already have some Windoze users playing on emulators, and they don't have a negative impact on the game. And, I can think of a few folk I've been wanting to convince to start playing for years who don't specifically because they don't want to pay $10 a month for when they can't use it conveniently on their machine of choice. Additionally, there is a developed character to the game which would tend to weed most of the l33t d00ds out, with the help of the experienced, powerful players who would be active in helping with the weeding.



As I asked in the thread where Destian suggested several ways to promote getting folk out of the library, are we so dedicated to keeping things the way they are, we're willing to let the game die, or are we willing to attract new players through new ideas and media?

I agree: Requiring Macs is no longer necessary to keep the l33t d00ds away, the 2D sprite graphics will do that just fine. And the exiles in TC have always done a really good job of politely guiding newbies in the ways of CL. I'm all for a Windows version.



(BTW - Whatever happened to CLv2, with the lighting effects, and what not? There are screenshots of it running on Windows, OS 9 and OS X...)

I question tha hypothesis that DT is concerned about tha player base fluctuations enough ta invest inna Win product.



What if tha bizness plan be ta have a lotta lil exiles, sum medium folks, and a few super folks. Ifn that be tha plan, and things is goin accordin ta plan, then all be good.



I really dont like tha idea o

Gee gms what has been around ferever, ya has been great, but we is gonna pay these folks ta take DT/CL inna different direction what we has said ferever it warnt gonna go.

Jest imagin how ya would feel ifn tha fella hired a year after ya were hired on at 5$/hr more than ya ta do tha same job.

Polanna wrote:The issue of a Windows client has come up in many many threads recently... What I'm interested in is the desirability and feasability of such a thing.

If you look at the poll results on all of the aforementioned threads, I think it's pretty clear what the desirability of a PC client is. As for feasability, I believe AnnGM wrote in another thread that if the PC Arindal client is compatible with DT's, they may use it for CL, so they are looking into it.



-Lundar

What I'm interested in as far as desirability goes is not so much whether people want it (as that is evident), but how much they want it. If I had the skills, I would do it myself.



Does anyone want it badly enough to volunteer their time and skills? If not, are they willing to pay for it?



I do think that it would be unfair to the GMs who are already unselfishly devoting their time and energy to the game. I would love to pay the GMs we have, and have suggested doing so, or at least looking into the feasability of doing so, in other threads.



I bring up paying outside people in this case because it seems that the resources may not exist in the CL world, or if they do, they are already dedicated to other (equally worthy) projects.



A PC client could bring in new people, which would mean more revenue, which could mean using some of that money to pay GMs. Of course, this is all speculation, but I think it could work.



If Arindal's client will work with CL, then wonderful. If not, then we should at least consider other options.

A windoze client has been on DT back burner for years I think. But its time for it to become a top issue. I think its gotten to the point where its the only thing that will save CL, and it might already be to late.



It will be years before most of the new players are to the level where they are even considered average by todays standards. And even longer before they have players reaching the top rungs (the place that seems to have the biggest lack of exiles recenlty).



DT also needs to spend some money advertising.



I am concerened about the move to a new hosting service and a new server. Was that done because CL has gone so far down hill that they can use a smaller server with smaller bandwidth requirements?

The only way we are getting a PC client is if the Arindal client works. DT is not gonna just hand out the code to anyone for them to work on it. They aren't going to all the sudden make CL an open source project that anyone can pitch in on. It seems likely the PC Client will work for CL just as Alchera's PC client worked for CL. If not good luck getting one.

So I tried to check out the Arindal board, but meine Deutsche nicht sehr gut. So is there a status on their windows client? What sort of timeline do they have for it? Does it sound like the same deal as when CL talked about it, lo those many years ago?



There has been talk of CL going PC for longer than I've been around. It's not going to happen, at least not from within the DT organization. What if people leave CL for Arindal? Yes, I know it's in german/dutch. A sizeable english speaking population may motivate them toward supporting english, but that's not what I care about. If they have a commitment to develop for Windows, shouldn't we spend our money there?



Many people are likely groaning, "I'd have to start as a rank newbie." Well, isn't it better to start fresh and actually contribute towards a more viable game than to cling to a sinking ship? Who wants to be the first exile to hit 5K ranks standing all alone in TC with 4 agratis and Algernon?

Cinnamon wrote:So I tried to check out the Arindal board, but meine Deutsche nicht sehr gut. So is there a status on their windows client? What sort of timeline do they have for it? Does it sound like the same deal as when CL talked about it, lo those many years ago?



There has been talk of CL going PC for longer than I've been around. It's not going to happen, at least not from within the DT organization. What if people leave CL for Arindal? Yes, I know it's in german/dutch. A sizeable english speaking population may motivate them toward supporting english, but that's not what I care about. If they have a commitment to develop for Windows, shouldn't we spend our money there?



Many people are likely groaning, "I'd have to start as a rank newbie." Well, isn't it better to start fresh and actually contribute towards a more viable game than to cling to a sinking ship? Who wants to be the first exile to hit 5K ranks standing all alone in TC with 4 agratis and Algernon?

The PC client is a definate, im sure it will come out same time as Mac one.

The game is in Alpha so its still some way off.

The english version wont happen, i think thats something written into the licence with DT (maybe). If not its way way way away.



Yes im sure many will play Arindal, i'll be one of them but i wont be leaving CL. Everything will be new in Arindal so it will be good fun to see it all with lots of others. I dont think you'll see people in CL leaving behind 4-6 years of hard work just like that you'll maybe see a drop off for a bit, then again you might see a increase. Im guessing the newbies we got coming in at present might well be Arindal people who are trying the CL for a while.

First things first, I would LOVE to see a windows client made. (Choice = good, remember? ;D)

Connie Crete wrote:I question tha hypothesis that DT is concerned about tha player base fluctuations enough ta invest inna Win product.



What if tha bizness plan be ta have a lotta lil exiles, sum medium folks, and a few super folks. Ifn that be tha plan, and things is goin accordin ta plan, then all be good.



I really dont like tha idea o

Gee gms what has been around ferever, ya has been great, but we is gonna pay these folks ta take DT/CL inna different direction what we has said ferever it warnt gonna go.

Jest imagin how ya would feel ifn tha fella hired a year after ya were hired on at 5$/hr more than ya ta do tha same job.

So, in summation. Tradition = good, progression = bad?



I can't seem to recall Sareth's actual quote but, would you rather see CL die in it's "pure" form, or continue on with some changes?

Cinnamon wrote:Who wants to be the first exile to hit 5K ranks standing all alone in TC with 4 agratis and Algernon?

I'd like to be the first, but I'm guessing a lot of people will hit 5k long before I do.



"Hogwash. [...] Of course, if you're Martlet, you don't believe DT will ever implement anything more to the game." -- Outcast, Nov 1998



"even if CL is the best on mac (it's the only one of its category and should have much more players when you see how many macs are in the world now), it won't last for ever if it's continue like that." -- Alone, June 2000



"CL won't last forever." -- Yor, Oct 2000



"CL [...is] dying" -- Jazz, Dec 2002



"CL has a great thing going. but if it keeps going like this, with out change, it wont last long." -- Kevin, August 2003



There have been lots of others, these were just easy to find. I remember back in beta people saying CL would quickly die once it started charging money. Despite a hundred predictions of its impending doom, CL has managed to survive more than 5 years beyond beta.



For every forboding prediction...



"I dont plan on going anywhere, I will prolly be with CL till they turn the lights off. -- Michael, Nov 2003

Please... you're wasting your time... read the Arindal Topic for ansewrs to all these questions.



Actually I know Kevin hit 5k a while ago. Or at least he claimed he did.

Baff wrote:

Cinnamon wrote:Who wants to be the first exile to hit 5K ranks standing all alone in TC with 4 agratis and Algernon?

I'd like to be the first, but I'm guessing a lot of people will hit 5k long before I do.



"Hogwash. [...] Of course, if you're Martlet, you don't believe DT will ever implement anything more to the game." -- Outcast, Nov 1998



"even if CL is the best on mac (it's the only one of its category and should have much more players when you see how many macs are in the world now), it won't last for ever if it's continue like that." -- Alone, June 2000



"CL won't last forever." -- Yor, Oct 2000



"CL [...is] dying" -- Jazz, Dec 2002



"CL has a great thing going. but if it keeps going like this, with out change, it wont last long." -- Kevin, August 2003



There have been lots of others, these were just easy to find. I remember back in beta people saying CL would quickly die once it started charging money. Despite a hundred predictions of its impending doom, CL has managed to survive more than 5 years beyond beta.



For every forboding prediction...



"I dont plan on going anywhere, I will prolly be with CL till they turn the lights off. -- Michael, Nov 2003

I guess it depends on your defination of long and soon Id say its got years left in it yet, imo, maybe more. Albeit at reduced numbers.



It competes with 3D and many other games still and it keeps going so its got life in it.