The Clan Lord Sentinel

Provost Phroon, Hoggle proposes the following trade:

Planetary Networks
Category: Discover Level: 2 (D2a)

Requires:
® Information Networks (D1b)
Allows:
@ Industrial Automation (B3b)
@ Cyberethics (B4a)

In exchange for:

Icetonian Transit System
Category: Explore Level: 3 (E3a)

Requires:
® Secrets of the Human Brain (D2c)
® Centauri Ecology (E1a)
Allows:
@ Snail Empathy (E5a)
@ Sticklord Theater (E4a)

xepel wrote:It has nothing to do with 'censorship' or being parental. It has everything to do with respecting the volunteers who spent their time and energy making the content of clanlord.

It does have to do with censorship and being parental. People are doing things a way you don't like, and so you're forcing them to "behave" instead of letting them do what they want (which doesn't even affect you).

Except that it really does effect her.

wangahrah wrote:All of this information can usually be found by another exile. This removes a layer of interaction which CL sorely needs. Thankfully, CL is not quest-based like WoW, so this doesn't harm things socially necessarily...but a FOTBer can "cheat", and suddenly be privy to information that Wangah has no idea about? The idea just seems very wrong to me. It raises the bar...no, it changes the bar. It's not a matter of exploring and keeping notes, it's a matter of letting other people work and referring to a cheat sheet after.

Precisely the problem. Clan Lord is a small community. One thing that Clan Lord offers that no other game does is an emphasis on building relationships to get things done. Whether it's establishing a group able to survive in an area to even attempt the puzzle, or building relationships with people to gain knowledge about certain areas, npcs or gm characters, etc... that's all a very important part of Clan Lord that is so easily overlooked.

Sure, WoW is great with it's wowhead and allakazam and goblinworkshop, but the feel of 'community' and individuality of each person is severely lacking there. But these comparisons don't apply to Clan Lord. Oranges to Apples.

The idea of a fotb coming to Clan Lord, loading a site with all the answers, getting bored and leaving really distresses me. The quests are a lot of fun, namely because they involve peer interaction and group problem solving to establishing fun. Following a set of instructions saying "Do A, do B, do C" is hardly as much 'fun'. It diminishes a lot of the potential fun there. It's one of the important aspects that makes Clan Lord really a multiplayer game as opposed to a single player or wow style "lfm 1-5c ranger 1-6c champ 1-5c bm 2-5c healer pst" with never getting to know the characters.

Furthermore, the fact that Wangah Rah knows more about the world around him than a fotb does adds depth to his character, increasing the individuality of both Wangah Rah's and the fotb's characters. In my opinion, it adds depth to the roleplaying aspect here, yet another facet that Clan Lord has the potential to hold over other online games.

But I can't say that I've the right to force my idea of 'fun' or how Clan Lord should be for other folks... just my opinion. That said, I think Phroon did an excellent job gathering the information there and building the site. The life of Clan Lord is the people who look to improve Clan Lord through ways other than simply in game and I'm positive this was his intention. Good job on the site, Phroon, despite whether or not myself or others agree with it.

I must admit I do like Wangah's comments on the idea of password protection.

I hate to talk about the elephant in the room, but Clan Lord may not have long to live. A lot less money is coming in, and I don't see enough new accounts to make up for the loss of subscriptions. So whatever you want to see and do in CL, carpe diem.

Torin wrote:I hate to talk about the elephant in the room, but Clan Lord may not have long to live. A lot less money is coming in, and I don't see enough new accounts to make up for the loss of subscriptions. So whatever you want to see and do in CL, carpe diem.

I'd be interested in hearing from Joe about this money comment you make. Sure, long term I'm sure the money coming in is going to slump - but I've have seen a lot of oldbies making new accounts, changing character names, paying for character moves, making new characters, etc in the absence of a monthly fee.

*shrug*

Not trying to say that CL is going to live forever. Just making an assumption based on what I've seen.

Torin wrote:I hate to talk about the elephant in the room, but Clan Lord may not have long to live. A lot less money is coming in, and I don't see enough new accounts to make up for the loss of subscriptions. So whatever you want to see and do in CL, carpe diem.

People have been saying that for years and years and years. Every year someone says that this is the last year for CL, it's going to be over. People have been saying that since the beginning. I'm pretty sure people will be saying it for a long time to come (indicating CL will be around for a while!).

The fact is, CL has very few operating costs, and was surviving with the few players we had left. Now we have way more people clanning (I see 70 people online at *least* once a week) - if even a fraction of those people pay, we're fine.

But yes. Ideally, CLS will give a way for some people to experience places they were not able to explore before. Not everyone can get Kani to give them a tour of the 'brion mazes. Not everyone wants to deal with <insert mystic> to learn about an item. Especially with the way some things are set up.

Really, some people just don't want to lose their power over others. Their power of knowing what others do not. Time to break those chains, free the information, let others experience the content that some have held under lock and key. Yes, you aren't as "special." But if one person has to be less special so many others can enjoy things, well... oh well for that person.

xepel wrote:Really, some people just don't want to lose their power over others. Their power of knowing what others do not. Time to break those chains, free the information, let others experience the content that some have held under lock and key.

What in the hell are you blathering about?
Folks figured stuff out on their own.

Every
Single
Player
has the same opportunities and access to the same information.
This entitlement bullshit gets tiresome.

I understand your point Xepel, I do.
But being an apprentice and journeyman for a while now does come with it's lessons in humility. Not being particularly useful on hunts. Not knowing a fraction of what my peers know...

And yet, I still believe that others will enjoy and appreciate things more by building relationships to obtain such knowledge. They get the goal they like, enjoyment from the effort involved, and get to make new acquaintances that may prove useful in the future. Sure, Kani or somemysticguy might not be available, but that's the beauty of information traveling in game. Someone you might not expect may be able to help you. Or you might get the opportunity to figure things out for yourself. Much more rewarding I'd say.

While we're on quotes...
"Some psychedelic drugs may offer the user the ability to see the top mountain briefly, but only those who climb it truly enjoy the summit."

Even in single player rpgs... kind of feels like jumping ahead, skipping the entire experience of playing through the game and heading straight for kefka or ba'alzamon or whoever, with no regard as to the experience or knowledge gained to get there. "Experience" in Clan Lord can't be measured simply in ranks.

Helios wrote:And yet, I still believe that others will enjoy and appreciate things more by building relationships to obtain such knowledge. They get the goal they like, enjoyment from the effort involved, and get to make new acquaintances that may prove useful in the future. Sure, Kani or somemysticguy might not be available, but that's the beauty of information traveling in game. Someone you might not expect may be able to help you. Or you might get the opportunity to figure things out for yourself. Much more rewarding I'd say.

The problem is that you don't get to determine what I find rewarding or not. That's been a major problem - people trying to enforce "their" kind of fun on others, because "that's how it *should* be."

Well, not all people find their satisfaction the same way.

I do enjoy exploring. I do enjoy tinkering. I do enjoy making acquaintances and finding out things from others. But sometimes what I *really* want to enjoy is not the quest-solving, but whatever is at the end of the quest. Maybe trying to figure out Umbrion's Fire Maze just isn't for me. Hey, even if I asked someone they'd just give me a map anyway! Sometimes the quest is just frustrating and I want it to be over with so I can get to The Next Part. Not every quest is a *good,* enjoyable quest to everyone. Sometimes GMs aren't good quest-makers. ;)

Basically, to repeat myself, it's not your place to say what is "rewarding" to me and what is not. Let those people who want to skip something have CLS to help them. If you don't want help, explore it for yourself. Of course the temptation is there, but unless you have no personal willpower you should be able to resist navigating to the site and clicking around.

xepel wrote:Let those people who want to skip something have CLS to help them.

Well shit, I'd like my healer to skip the whole training for and paying for a purg pendant. I like those nifty shape-changing things the rangers do, can I jump ahead and just have them all at fingertips? I would find it fun if I could have those shape changing things and also a fully powered lava cloak. I would find these things fun. I am entitled to have fun the way I want.

No? it's not your place to say what is "rewarding" to me and what is not.

Fogtripper wrote:

xepel wrote:Let those people who want to skip something have CLS to help them.

Well shit, I'd like my healer to skip the whole training for and paying for a purg pendant. I like those nifty shape-changing things the rangers do, can I jump ahead and just have them all at fingertips? I would find it fun if I could have those shape changing things and also a fully powered lava cloak. I would find these things fun. I am entitled to have fun the way I want.

No? it's not your place to say what is "rewarding" to me and what is not.

Wow, I agree with something Fogtripper has said, you know you've got to be way off base, Xepel.

Sorry, Fogtripper, but I think you and Xepel are comparing apples and oranges. You're asking for 'cheats' to get tangible items. Xepel is asking for the answers to clues and puzzles. Obviously the website isn't going to give you a hack to get a purgatory pendant, stop being a prat. But knowing the answers to DUNDUNDUN 'secrets' doesn't mean the person is going to follow through. I may know how to solve the mystic puzzles, but that doesn't mean I give a damn about being a Mystic.

Kerrah wrote:Wow, I agree with something Fogtripper has said, you know you've got to be way off base, Xepel.

Or you are both off base and I am not. ;)

(Or we all just have differing opinions and are all right under different circumstances and for different people!)

(... not that I read what Fogtripper has to say, gotta love that "foes" list.)

Ayella wrote:Sorry, Fogtripper, but I think you and Xepel are comparing apples and oranges. You're asking for 'cheats' to get tangible items. Xepel is asking for the answers to clues and puzzles.

We are talking about results of time and effort in an imaginary game environment. We are speaking of a desire to skip over the unpleasant to get to the reward. If the plug is pulled tomorrow, who is left with the more "tangible" reward?

Perhaps it's the mystic in me, but I feel the things being "spoiled" would be more tangible if one had found them out on their own.

xepel wrote: Or you are both off base and I am not.

Or perhaps your laziness and sense of entitlement blocks off any rational thought.

Most of the mystic quests are uninspired puzzles that you need to do over and over again. I support telling people at the very least where the puzzles are located, presently no newbie is going to have any idea on how to get to these puzzles. I'm not sure if I support telling people how to do the puzzles, however when you have classics like towers of hanoi and slide puzzles it really seems kind of silly claiming it's a secret. Besides it's ridiculous of mystics to think the information is a secret, it is but only to those who are new/haven't bothered asking around. Punishing newbies is not a good way to increase the population base.

Helios wrote:I must admit I do like Wangah's comments on the idea of password protection.

I don't.