Erm, after explaining the problem (which is usually timing in firmware) multiple times, and what you can try to fix it, I give up.Ayella wrote:Works flawlessly in Windows 7 via boot camp on my iMac. Go figure; Windows handles Clan Lord better than OS X.
Macbook Pro weirdness?
- noivad
- Exile
- Post #1
Macbook Pro weirdness?
- Exinferis
- Exile
- Post #2
Macbook Pro weirdness?
I remember that Mujin got her new macbook air. And the first thing she was going todo after unwrapping : install windows on it.
Mac client suck! LAG!
Something in those words.
Mac client suck! LAG!
Something in those words.
- Ayella
- Exile
- Post #3
Macbook Pro weirdness?
I think you're missing the point. The firmware works fine on the same computer using the same hardware on a separate partition running Windows 7. I've updated the Firmware and re-installed everything back when this problem first started. It seems like something on the OS X side just doesn't play well with my 07 Airport, something that apparently can't be fixed, but doesn't occur on Windows 7. I appreciate your suggestion, but you can keep explaining the same thing till you're blue in the face, and it still doesn't fix it ;]noivad wrote:Erm, after explaining the problem (which is usually timing in firmware) multiple times, and what you can try to fix it, I give up.Ayella wrote:Works flawlessly in Windows 7 via boot camp on my iMac. Go figure; Windows handles Clan Lord better than OS X.
- Dyaus
- Exile
- Post #4
Macbook Pro weirdness?
Sorry for the thread necromancy, but I recently acquired a Retina MacBook Pro and ran into this problem. I have subsequently come up with a reasonable workaround for it.
THE PROBLEM
The symptoms can be described as jittery gameplay when playing online games, especially Clan Lord (which handles this jitter particularly poorly). The problem is related to power-saving settings that Apple has implemented in their wireless drivers on all new Macs. If your wireless connection is extremely active (e.g. you're downloading a large file, certain music/video streaming applications will work) your performance may be fine, but otherwise there's not quite enough network activity and your computer is constantly putting your wireless card into a low power state, causing lag issues. I believe every Mac model they currently sell besides the "classic" (i.e. non-retina) MacBook Pro suffers from this problem.
CONFIRMING YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM
Edit: These instructions didn't confirm anything for Ayella, but my fix seems to be helping her anyway. Your mileage may vary.
The easiest way to confirm you have this issue is by "pinging" your wireless router. I'll try to make these instructions clear for those that are a little bit less tech savvy.
1. Open Terminal (it lives in your /Applications/Utilities folder).
2. Copy/paste the following command in Terminal to find the IP address of your router:
3. Issue the following command in Terminal:
For example...
The "time=" value tells you, in milliseconds, how long it took for your computer to ping (kind of like a quick "hello" over the network) your router. Under normal circumstances, you should get very consistent response times between 0 and 4 milliseconds.
But if you have the wireless problem I've described, you'll see something more like...
An extra 100 milliseconds may not sound like much, and for many applications (web browsing, etc.) you won't notice it. But it makes Clan Lord perform like garbage.
FIXING THE PROBLEM
You don't. Apple may fix it some day, but they don't like to admit they're capable of wrongdoing. This problem has existed for at least a couple years on certain Mac models.
WORKING AROUND THE PROBLEM
As mentioned above, if there's a certain minimum amount of network activity, you won't experience this problem. So rather than downloading gigantic files all day, issue the following command in Terminal:
The "-i 0.2" part sets the interval of your ping to 0.2 seconds, so instead of pinging every second, you're pinging 5 times per second. Voila:
Just let Terminal run in the background, constantly pinging your router whenever you play Clan Lord.
If anyone has questions / needs help, let me know.
p.s. client gm, you should roll this into the client.
THE PROBLEM
The symptoms can be described as jittery gameplay when playing online games, especially Clan Lord (which handles this jitter particularly poorly). The problem is related to power-saving settings that Apple has implemented in their wireless drivers on all new Macs. If your wireless connection is extremely active (e.g. you're downloading a large file, certain music/video streaming applications will work) your performance may be fine, but otherwise there's not quite enough network activity and your computer is constantly putting your wireless card into a low power state, causing lag issues. I believe every Mac model they currently sell besides the "classic" (i.e. non-retina) MacBook Pro suffers from this problem.
CONFIRMING YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM
Edit: These instructions didn't confirm anything for Ayella, but my fix seems to be helping her anyway. Your mileage may vary.
The easiest way to confirm you have this issue is by "pinging" your wireless router. I'll try to make these instructions clear for those that are a little bit less tech savvy.
1. Open Terminal (it lives in your /Applications/Utilities folder).
2. Copy/paste the following command in Terminal to find the IP address of your router:
Code: Select all
netstat -nr | grep '^default' | awk '{print $2;}'Code: Select all
ping YOUR-ROUTER-IP-ADDRESSFor example...
Code: Select all
ping 192.168.1.1But if you have the wireless problem I've described, you'll see something more like...
Code: Select all
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=30 ttl=255 time=3.949 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=31 ttl=255 time=27.439 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=32 ttl=255 time=51.175 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=33 ttl=255 time=74.739 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=34 ttl=255 time=98.969 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=35 ttl=255 time=18.825 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=36 ttl=255 time=4.567 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=37 ttl=255 time=1.925 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=38 ttl=255 time=89.389 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=39 ttl=255 time=2.389 msFIXING THE PROBLEM
You don't. Apple may fix it some day, but they don't like to admit they're capable of wrongdoing. This problem has existed for at least a couple years on certain Mac models.
WORKING AROUND THE PROBLEM
As mentioned above, if there's a certain minimum amount of network activity, you won't experience this problem. So rather than downloading gigantic files all day, issue the following command in Terminal:
Code: Select all
ping -i 0.2 YOUR-ROUTER-IP-ADDRESSThe "-i 0.2" part sets the interval of your ping to 0.2 seconds, so instead of pinging every second, you're pinging 5 times per second. Voila:
Code: Select all
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=19 ttl=255 time=2.197 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=20 ttl=255 time=1.812 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=21 ttl=255 time=1.859 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=22 ttl=255 time=1.771 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=23 ttl=255 time=1.678 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=24 ttl=255 time=2.103 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=25 ttl=255 time=2.536 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=26 ttl=255 time=1.719 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=27 ttl=255 time=1.666 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=28 ttl=255 time=3.273 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=29 ttl=255 time=2.597 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=30 ttl=255 time=1.692 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.1.1: icmp_seq=31 ttl=255 time=1.870 msIf anyone has questions / needs help, let me know.
p.s. client gm, you should roll this into the client.
- Ayella
- Exile
- Post #5
Macbook Pro weirdness?
This is awesome, Dyaus! I went ahead and tested it on my end to see if it helped at all.
That was my results when I pinged my router. It went on and on like that; I never saw those outrageous numbers you spoke about. However, despite that, I tested playing Clan Lord pinging my router the way you suggested in the second half of your post and the lagginess is MUCH improved!! There's a tiny bit of jerky movement but it's at least playable.
How very, very odd!
Code: Select all
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=3.684 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=4.413 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=3.785 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=3.795 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=3.680 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=255 time=3.698 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=6 ttl=255 time=3.777 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=255 time=0.656 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=255 time=0.659 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=255 time=0.553 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=10 ttl=255 time=0.574 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=11 ttl=255 time=0.572 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=12 ttl=255 time=3.793 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=13 ttl=255 time=5.879 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=14 ttl=255 time=3.845 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=15 ttl=255 time=1.384 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=16 ttl=255 time=3.896 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=17 ttl=255 time=3.888 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=18 ttl=255 time=3.837 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=19 ttl=255 time=3.774 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=20 ttl=255 time=3.788 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=21 ttl=255 time=4.509 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=22 ttl=255 time=1.457 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=23 ttl=255 time=3.809 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=24 ttl=255 time=3.814 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=25 ttl=255 time=4.607 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=26 ttl=255 time=5.875 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=27 ttl=255 time=3.757 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=28 ttl=255 time=4.282 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=29 ttl=255 time=3.671 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=30 ttl=255 time=4.640 ms
64 bytes from 10.0.1.1: icmp_seq=31 ttl=255 time=4.637 msHow very, very odd!
- Dyaus
- Exile
- Post #6
Macbook Pro weirdness?
I had planned to make a handy dandy AppleScript program for running this workaround, but it turns out that's not quite as easy as I thought. Oh well.
Here's a script that will make the magic happen:
How to use the script:
Save the above code into a text file named whatever-you-want.command (mine is named latency-fix.command), then double click your script to run it.
You may (or may not?) have to also add "executable" permissions to the file for it to run on a double click. If you need help with that, or run into any trouble with the above, I'd be happy to help.
EDIT: If you get the error message: "ping: -i interval too short: Operation not permitted" then add "sudo" at the beginning of the "ping" line. (Thanks Feodoric!) For example:
Here's a script that will make the magic happen:
Code: Select all
#!/bin/bash
DEFAULTGATEWAY=`netstat -nr | grep '^default' | awk '{print $2;}'`
ping -i 0.2 $DEFAULTGATEWAYSave the above code into a text file named whatever-you-want.command (mine is named latency-fix.command), then double click your script to run it.
You may (or may not?) have to also add "executable" permissions to the file for it to run on a double click. If you need help with that, or run into any trouble with the above, I'd be happy to help.
EDIT: If you get the error message: "ping: -i interval too short: Operation not permitted" then add "sudo" at the beginning of the "ping" line. (Thanks Feodoric!) For example:
Code: Select all
#!/bin/bash
DEFAULTGATEWAY=`netstat -nr | grep '^default' | awk '{print $2;}'`
sudo ping -i 0.2 $DEFAULTGATEWAY- Osito
- Exile
- Post #8
Macbook Pro weirdness?
This is really cool you've made this available Dyaus! Sadly I don't have OSX still installed on this machine...
I did want to mention something I noticed while using Windows 8.1 Pro on my macbook air. I never use bluetooth so last night I decided to uninstall apple's bluetooth from my device manager. Thinking it would be relatively harmless I logged on to join the latenight hunt only to realize I was very choppy/laggy. I noticed the lag was consistent and running speed tests on testmy.net came up with pretty fast numbers. I gave up on the hunt but i decided to troubleshoot the issue.
I soon found that if I had a torrent running and downloading/uploading that I had NO lag in clanlord. Deja vu from how I used to play clanlord on Mac OSX to prevent choppiness. It was as if I was back on Mountain Lion with the same old laggy clanlord....but i'm here on windows 8.1!
I did a repair of apple bootcamp driver files and it re-installed the apple bluetooth broadcom drivers. I rebooted, and the problem literally disapeared.
I only bring this up because I'm curious if enabling/disabling/connecting a bluetooth device on OSX fixes any of these Wi-Fi issues. I remember always having all bluetooth options disabled, all checkboxes unchecked in its preferences while I used OSX. Maybe if I had it enabled and running then I wouldn't have had wi-fi issues? Anyone care to test?
I did want to mention something I noticed while using Windows 8.1 Pro on my macbook air. I never use bluetooth so last night I decided to uninstall apple's bluetooth from my device manager. Thinking it would be relatively harmless I logged on to join the latenight hunt only to realize I was very choppy/laggy. I noticed the lag was consistent and running speed tests on testmy.net came up with pretty fast numbers. I gave up on the hunt but i decided to troubleshoot the issue.
I soon found that if I had a torrent running and downloading/uploading that I had NO lag in clanlord. Deja vu from how I used to play clanlord on Mac OSX to prevent choppiness. It was as if I was back on Mountain Lion with the same old laggy clanlord....but i'm here on windows 8.1!
I did a repair of apple bootcamp driver files and it re-installed the apple bluetooth broadcom drivers. I rebooted, and the problem literally disapeared.
I only bring this up because I'm curious if enabling/disabling/connecting a bluetooth device on OSX fixes any of these Wi-Fi issues. I remember always having all bluetooth options disabled, all checkboxes unchecked in its preferences while I used OSX. Maybe if I had it enabled and running then I wouldn't have had wi-fi issues? Anyone care to test?
- Rakshasa
- Exile
- Post #9
Macbook Pro weirdness?
I'm on a MacBook Pro from 2011 running 10.6.8, and have similar wireless issues. Tried out the ping fix but got this message:
ping: -i interval too short: Operation not permitted
The -i appears to work only with values of 1 or greater. Any ideas on another workaround?
ping: -i interval too short: Operation not permitted
The -i appears to work only with values of 1 or greater. Any ideas on another workaround?
- Ayella
- Exile
- Post #10
Macbook Pro weirdness?
Not sure if this is what you mean, but I use a wireless trackpad and keyboard on my iMac 24/7 and without using the ping shortcut I lag, so the bluetooth doesn't seem to affect it. (and with my old computer that lagged, too, I had no bluetooth at all and still had issues.)Osito wrote:
I only bring this up because I'm curious if enabling/disabling/connecting a bluetooth device on OSX fixes any of these Wi-Fi issues. I remember always having all bluetooth options disabled, all checkboxes unchecked in its preferences while I used OSX. Maybe if I had it enabled and running then I wouldn't have had wi-fi issues? Anyone care to test?
- Feodoric Mermeios
- Exile
- Post #11
Macbook Pro weirdness?
I also had this problem. Putting "sudo" in front of the whole command will force it to set a lower interval. You'll just have to type your password.Rakshasa wrote:I'm on a MacBook Pro from 2011 running 10.6.8, and have similar wireless issues. Tried out the ping fix but got this message:
ping: -i interval too short: Operation not permitted
The -i appears to work only with values of 1 or greater. Any ideas on another workaround?
- Sala Dragon
- Exile
- Post #12
Macbook Pro weirdness?
I just realized I must have the same problem on my 2010 and 2012 Macbook Airs, but not on my 2009 iMac, which I dusted off recently. It was like playing a different game -- one where I could actually control where my character was going and could time swings. And here I thought it was just the trackpad.
- Rakshasa
- Exile
- Post #13
Macbook Pro weirdness?
Thanks Feodoric, this seemed to do the trick!Feodoric Mermeios wrote:
I also had this problem. Putting "sudo" in front of the whole command will force it to set a lower interval. You'll just have to type your password.
- Osito
- Exile
- Post #14
Macbook Pro weirdness?
I've been using my iPhone 5s as a personal hotspot for the past week. Playing clanlord has been brutal with disconnects and lag galore. It seems the iphone doesn't recognize clanlord as actual internet activity hence the disconnects. I'm on windows 8.1 but using Dyaus fix has helped remedy the problem! I just open a Command Prompt and type:
ping -i 1 172.20.10.1 -t
I used 1 as the interval because it doesn't seem to accept anything less than 1. the -t command will make it ping the iphone forever.
edit: Scratch that, still getting disconnected with the message "Error: Connection reset by server" =(
ping -i 1 172.20.10.1 -t
I used 1 as the interval because it doesn't seem to accept anything less than 1. the -t command will make it ping the iphone forever.
edit: Scratch that, still getting disconnected with the message "Error: Connection reset by server" =(
- noivad
- Exile
- Post #15
Macbook Pro weirdness?
I only learned about the fact that newer OS X machine slip into power saving mode automatically once I got one.Osito wrote:This is really cool you've made this available Dyaus! Sadly I don't have OSX still installed on this machine...
I did want to mention something I noticed while using Windows 8.1 Pro on my macbook air. I never use bluetooth so last night I decided to uninstall apple's bluetooth from my device manager. Thinking it would be relatively harmless I logged on to join the latenight hunt only to realize I was very choppy/laggy. I noticed the lag was consistent and running speed tests on testmy.net came up with pretty fast numbers. I gave up on the hunt but i decided to troubleshoot the issue.
I soon found that if I had a torrent running and downloading/uploading that I had NO lag in clanlord. Deja vu from how I used to play clanlord on Mac OSX to prevent choppiness. It was as if I was back on Mountain Lion with the same old laggy clanlord....but i'm here on windows 8.1!
I did a repair of apple bootcamp driver files and it re-installed the apple bluetooth broadcom drivers. I rebooted, and the problem literally disapeared.
I only bring this up because I'm curious if enabling/disabling/connecting a bluetooth device on OSX fixes any of these Wi-Fi issues. I remember always having all bluetooth options disabled, all checkboxes unchecked in its preferences while I used OSX. Maybe if I had it enabled and running then I wouldn't have had wi-fi issues? Anyone care to test?
If you are on Windows, simply ping your router. (you can find its address in your network settings or just pull up a command prompt (Run/Cmd/C:) and enter ipconfig /all or tracert server.deltatao.com to find your router. If your router has enabled stealth-mode this might default this workaround (f anyone knows, chime in), but I doubt it, since the Machine is kept in a transmitting every second.
I think even 1 second (the default) might be enough to keep both macs and Routers out of power saving mode. The routers seem to jitter every few seconds rather than lag. If it does need anything under 1 second between pings, 250ms (or .25) should be more than enough since CL frame rate is about 4 FPS.
Another thing you can do is Stream things from your machine to something in your LAN, like music if you have a PS3, AppleTV or Chromecast (depending on your platform).
I added the link to the script here to the CLUMP under Appendix A: lag compensation.
Figuring out networking issues can be dicey even with knowledge and experience if you don’t have the tools to monitor what is happening on the network. There are a few really good open source network analysis tools, but they might be too overwhelming to learn for some.