The Clan Lord Sentinel

Discussion of the uses of portals

***sorry to folks wishing to discuss portal politics, this is directed to Hidden but I could no longer post on TMN***









sigh...



Klur didnt say a word about people "busting in on hunts" he just said and I quote:



"Even if that reason is nothing more than lets say to protect a training ground from being over run so that PM could not train in it."



When I go hunting, if a person our group is already occupying the area I do one of 2 things : A) leave and wish them well. or B) ask to join if I know the folks well enough or they look like they could use help.



now.... if PM was already in Pitch Cave/FH/Wherever and someone busted in on them (even tho they may deserve it for past wrongdoings) I would side with them, common courtesy dicates that if a group is their first, it's their area til they're done with it, period.



I'm really kinda disappointed that you missed that.

To read the previous discussion on the portals, view these entries at TMN:



http://www.thoomcare.com/archives/001260.html



http://www.thoomcare.com/archives/001261.html



http://www.thoomcare.com/archives/001262.html

The argument has been made by exiles that if the WC was as close to town as the rat towers (what the portals would effectively do), then we'd go there "all the @#% time". If so, considering that some of the most avid explorers occupy the same time-slot as PMF, I'd think conflicts would come up fairly frequently. This is enough of an apparent hassle for PM/F that they view it easier to simply move the portals than to deal with being intruded on every night.



That's just my take, of course.

Hidden-



You are an even bigger jack-off than Klur.

Wow... I think anyone who spends more than a minute eve discussing the portal is f*cked up in the head. you cant convince everyone where it should go, so what's the point in writing those big paragraphs that get ideas nowhere? there's always some jerk that will disagree and point out all the negative aspects.

Insanelife wrote:Wow... I think anyone who spends more than a minute eve discussing the portal is f*cked up in the head. you cant convince everyone where it should go, so what's the point in writing those big paragraphs that get ideas nowhere? there's always some jerk that will disagree and point out all the negative aspects.

Basically, for shits and giggles.

After reading through 200+ posts, I am rather surprised that not a single person asked the fundamental questions involved with the portals.



Who created the portals?



When were they created?



Why did they create them?

(Oddly enough, many people seem to have assumed that some greater power created the portals just so that exiles could go on sight-seeing trips. I can't begin to imagine where they got this idea from.)



Why didn't they destroy them when they were finished with them?



Are they finished with them?



Are they still alive?



How will they feel about exiles stealing them when they find out? (They must be very powerful to have created the portals and a floating island, and no telling what else.)



The rest of this discussion seems fairly pointless to me without at least some answers to a few of these question.

I would be curious to know the answers to these questions too.



My only disagreement is that I wouldn't want to hold up the discussion of the portals waiting for an answer for them first.

To me, these questions are the real issue.



Well, hows this: Discussions should at least take some of the more likely answers into consideration, where relevant.



I'm not convinced that the answers aren't out there, though no telling when they may be discovered.



Personally, I'm not sure I would want to be the one holding the portal when the owner showed up.



I can't stop people from going forward with the assumption that the owners are dead or benevolent, but it seems foolish to not consider some of the worst case senarios. For all we know, the Darshak created the portals as part of an invasion plan.



It seems odd to me that there are no clues as to their true origin or purpose. It seems to me the most likely reason for that would be that someone is intentionally hiding that information.



Before Puddleby decides the fate of OUR portals, it seems that at least some small consideration should be given for the true owner(s). Has anyone put any real effort into returning their property to them?



We also know nothing about how they truly work. Are there side-effects to repeated use of the portals? Why is it so painful to use the portals except for the most intellectual among us? Was this meant as a warning for animals and less mentally advanced races to be wary of the portals? Are the portals powered by our lifeforce? We know that the short-term effects are drastically bad for most, why should it be assumed that there are no long-term effects



Perhaps a race of people created the portals and they were being slowly killed off by the them. By the time they figured out the cause of their demise, they were too weak to destory them, so they hid them away as well as they could manage, on an island set adrift in the sky. Perhaps their hope was that by the time another race gained access to the cloud, they would be wise enough to look for the dangers of the portals before using them.



Talk of using the portals without trying to learn anything at all about them is like if the first time you saw an Orga Dredlock, you asked him to light your cigarette...

I think discussing the origins of the portal would be great. I just would not want that discussion to impede discussing the topics that Klur, Yor, and Sognus were heading towards at TMN.



1) What are some guidelines that can be established for using the portal?



2) What sort of competition could be established that might help determine when certain groups get to use the portal?



3) When can a town meeting be organized to discuss these matters? What would be on the agenda?

Great questions, Baff.



Para, you previously in Thoomcare asked that more PM members speak up. I apologize if I upset your thread agenda, but I assumed my comments, even tardy, were desired.



I am going to address the comments previously posted on Thoomcare, then I will bow out of the discussion. Unlike many here, I do not have access to the 'net at work. Also, I work horrendous hours these days, so its unlikely I could chime in more than once a day anyway.



Para stated: "Sure, Althea, you can move them. We've already covered the whole might makes right thing....Those smart solutions include the ones Klur and Yor were talking about above. But if want to go back and rehash the wisdom of acting prematurely, we can do that too"



Sorry if my comments weren't timely enough. Contrary to the myth of all the free time we have, that was the first opportunity I had to write. A Thoom once advised me to wait before posting. I did (thanks for the advice, Hidden.) It was asserted that we weren't being IC... that what we do isn't IC. I was addressing that in my comments. Sorry if I wasn't clear.



(Or worse... irrelevant.)



Ruen: "You then state that you don't have everyone's best interest at heart,"

I never stated that. I said that many in CL don't have everyone's best interests at heart.



Para: "For me, part of the issue is that in the case of the portals, "might makes stupidity." What is PM/F going to do, spend all their time monitoring the portals"



Apparently, we've been doing sufficient so far. But like others have stated, I'm amenable to compromise.





Sognus:

Thanks for your comments. Taking teleportation out of the hands of the mystic class DOES weaken the class and reduces class interdepency. You haven't told me yet how it doesn't. Off the top of my head, I'd like to see control of the portals turned over to the Mystic Council. I doubt, however, that this would be a popular solution, sadly enough. As for my statement that "we are Pogue Mahone. Why wouldn't we decide what is right and do it" that is, of course, an IC statement. It is a character position. Would Mary hold that position? no. Would Althea? yes.



Apologies for being ooc in an "in character" forum. I'll prolly say no more.

Quoted from ThoomCare:

Aldernon said:



I think people are getting confused w/ the whole "rights" thing. There is nothing OOC about this, for one thing. IC, we have no rights, none of us in this penal colony w/o laws or rules. (I never claimed any of us did) Which is why I was commenting on the first statement of "...deny ones right to use the portals" (paraphrased).

You seem to have confused rights with laws and rules. Rules and laws have nothing to do with rights (and, in many cases rules and laws restrict rights).



If you choose to give up YOUR rights because someone's tossed you into a prison, that's your decision. But don't try to take away mine. For what it's worth, I CHOSE to leave the Tyranny of the mainland for the Freedom of Puddleby. It was a one way trip (at least until the Emporer dies), so don't ask me how to get back. But even if I had been incarcerated and exiled against my will, I still wouldn't give up my rights.





So don't try to say that no one's rights are being violated because we have none...that's one of the lamest excuse for abusing your fellow exiles that I've ever heard. If you're going to do bad things to people, don't try to pretend that nothing bad has happened...you're not fooling anyone (except maybe yourself). Tara was wronged no matter how you try to twist the circumstances, and I still haven't heard an apology from anyone involved (and, no, there's nothing I can do to make you apologize, and I'm sure pretty much any fighter in PM can squash me like a bug...but you were still wrong for stranding people on KI without warning).





Oh, and Hidden...if you like to kick puppies (or any other creature that can't defend itself), you really shouldn't be surprised when someone tougher than you decides to kick you around. They would be violating your rights as surely as you were violating the rights of those puppies, but some people prefer the old "eye for an eye" method of justice. If we weren't living in a lawless penal colony, there would be laws against kicking puppies, but since we live in an anarchy, all the puppies have are people willing to defend them from your abuse (at least until said puppies are allowed to sue you in court ).





"Your right to swing your fist ends when it intersects my nose."

"You can't enslave a Free Dwarf, the worst you can do is kill him."



Damn the Emperor!

BEER!

Mongo

Baff, I recommend taking your origin-based portal questions to another thread where they'll get the attention and discussion they deserve, as it seems this thread is occupied.



-Xel

Aldernon said:



I think people are getting confused w/ the whole "rights" thing. There is nothing OOC about this, for one thing. IC, we have no rights, none of us in this penal colony w/o laws or rules. (I never claimed any of us did) Which is why I was commenting on the first statement of "...deny ones right to use the portals" (paraphrased).

Even criminals have rights thats what makes them free (free as in without a master not free as in being able to go where they want)



Everybody even criminals has the right to live in peace, unmolestered by anybody else

When something disrupts that way of life (like removing the portal when you were counting on using it) that is an infringement of their rights, forcing them to do something they wouldnt normally have done or would rather not do.

Yor said on Thoomcare



Have a competition I call "The Ki/Portal Challenge". This could be either a bi-weekly or monthly competition to determine who controls the purple portal for that period of time. Sort of like the Knights competing against each other for the right to "pull the sword from the stone".

IMO a challenge like the one you suggest is a bad idea because it simply isnt fair, even daytime ki is very dangerous for the inexperienced.

It is just another version of might makes right, you might not be directly stealing the portals from one another but it is still the same in the end.



The portals will always go to the quickest, toughest, meanest, sneakyest.

How could a group 3rd circlers who want to take the portal to OOB for a week defeat a dedicated group where ewach member has been hunting on ki for years?

Klur wrote on Thoomcare



Pogue Mahone is a training group a training group that is currently held in a prison many like to call it a town. I have no idea why but they do.



Pogue Mahone requires very strong, intelligent, battle ready exiles to defeat Mobius. For when we finally find our way out of this prison we will have to deal with a battle the likes of which no one can imagine.



To that end it is in our interest to prevent exiles in general from becoming soft. We seek to train other exiles and clans in our ways and beliefs so that when the day comes. They and us will be prepared to do battle with Mobius.



We seek to engage other exiles in games so that we will know each others limits, strengths and weaknesses. Only through our persistent training and testing each others skills will we stand a chance.



This will be an extremely risky, and challenging event however we believe the rewards will be the greatest possible.



/yells Freedom

Thats all well and good but you are forgetting one tiny detail.



You cant force people to fight for freedom!



Yes i was exiled here against my will and it saddens me that i may never see my homeland again but i'm happy here, i have made new friends and have a new family as part of the Sun Dragon Clan.



I will fight for what i deem right, for what it means to me to be free and that isnt a retaliation against a mad emporer.



Forcing people to fight for what you decide is in their best interests is not only the worst kind of arogance it's presumptuous, and a form of slavery.



I will not bow down to your will and your idea of what is best for everybody unless I belive in it.



Most of us may have been exiled here against our will, but here we are free to make our own choices in life, so feel free to train those who come to you seeking revenge and retaliation but dont force your views on the rest of us who just want to live our lives in the way we see fit