The Clan Lord Sentinel

This is more a poll than a suggestion but i suggest the portals be removed and a permanent exit be installed on the cloud so people can exit safely and wont land stranded or fallen due to the actions of whichever group of sadistic/selfish bastards have had 5 minutes alone with the portals.



Im not normally given to ranting but i have to say Cloud GM IMO the cloud sucks, the timed entrances were novel for a while but it sucks that the cloud can and does spend days hovering above the marsh and east forest and 5 minutes over the mirror once a fortnight if you're lucky.



The exits should not be controllable by players, imagine if the boat thoom on ki decided to wander off one day and sit in the middle of the scaramis pit or decided to breen GCp in the bay, not even these things would cause as much inclonvience and agro as having one person move the portals into the middle of a lava pit.



The new AI for the maha's is great and adds a lot more challenge to hunting there thats a definate thumbs up (although it would be nice if those cats wernt so mangy and kept their coats in better condition).



Being able to have snowball fights in C&S II is great as well (or would be if we could get anybody up there to have them)



But while the content of the cloud is great for the most part, the entrance and exits make the cloud suck badly.

HGM (I think it was him anyway) Mentioned in the NG that more sets of portals may appear.



As nice as it would be, any "good" area that said portals are put will most likely be moved by some disruptive snert, or the Pogues.



soo......



I say we try to track down the explosive maker guy... and blow up Pog..er I mean, blow up the cloud.



no cloud, no teleporters, no more bitching about who put them where today.





-NB



(p.s. since there was no "blow the damned thing up" option, I abstained from voting.)

i re read the NG and helpful GM said

There may become more,

later, but we're watching to see what happens with this pair.

Granted i dont know why GMs do the things they do but considering what we did with this pair are they really likely to give us more of them?





(On a side note to the moderators, i forgot to add Leave them as they are and Other (include suggestions) to the poll, is it too late for them to be added now that people have started voting?)

You didn't make clear if "Both portals should be removed and a permanent exit installed" means the portals should be removed from the cloud or from the game.

I meant from the game, I dont see how only removing them from the cloud would help matters.(Although in retrospect, aside from those people who are sick of the whole fiasco, i cant see many people voting to give up their new toy)



What really amazes me is that for months people have been complaining on the newsgroup here and in in the game about the time and effort it takes to get to some places and as soon as we get a way to circumvent that we not only put it in the new area because the nevelty has worn off we wont let anybody use it if it cant lead there.



The people who moved it to OOB and ki have been called selfish because they put the portals in places that they were interested in and that they wanted, arnt the people who refuse to see it anywhere but the cloud being just as selfish? just for the sake of some quick coins?



Why are the wishes of the people who want to use it to hunt Ki or go to the foothills or OOB any less valid and worthwhile than those who want to CW on the cloud all day.



If it were on Ki groups of people who could never normally hunt there could without being limited by time or having to split the party.



If it were in the foothills they could be explored more thouroughly and more often without having to worry as much about the fact that they are a long way from home and there is no way anybody could come to help them if they got into trouble.



If it were in the OOB groups of 3rd and 4h circle fighters (which i belive were the main opposers to the portals being off the cloud) could hunt there for exp and not have to have the strength and organisation needed to get through HH.



What is so special about the cloud?

Why is it so important that the portals remain there?

Why do people belive that if they cant have the portals go where they want to that nobody should?

I understand your frustration, and I sympathize. People have been asking for years for more ways to significantly affect the world, more player control over things usually handled by NPCs. Unfortunately, someone else's idea of the right way to control something may not agree with yours or mine.



All that aside, nothing in Puddleby is ever in completely final form, especially not only a couple of updates after it's introduced.



Ann

Mjollnir wrote:Why are the wishes of the people who want to use it to hunt Ki or go to the foothills or OOB any less valid and worthwhile than those who want to CW on the cloud all day.

I think the main argument is that for a vast majority of exiles there is no other way to get onto the cloud. Once the dark cloud cooperates a little and is more often seen over the mirror and people have a way to get onto the cloud that doesn't require one of the teleporters I think it will be a nice tool to use to get to places like KI or OOB or whatnot.



How many exiles can enter the cloud without the portals at this time? How do you get off the cloud without jumping off if you don't want to become stranded away from town?



Also remember that it's not only CWs, there is good exp and challenge there for a number of exiles. I think it was meant to be a hunting ground for a level of exiles which do not go to KI or OOB, and they can't go to the cloud anymore. There isn't an alternative, like there is for KI or OOB.

Assumin tha portals remain as dynamic as they currently exist,



tha portals belong where they be placed.





Connie

Ann wrote:I understand your frustration, and I sympathize. People have been asking for years for more ways to significantly affect the world, more player control over things usually handled by NPCs. Unfortunately, someone else's idea of the right way to control something may not agree with yours or mine.



All that aside, nothing in Puddleby is ever in completely final form, especially not only a couple of updates after it's introduced.



Ann

I would like to see more sets of portals, and have one end of the portals be in a fixed location (I dont give a fuck where as long as its neat town and doesnt require a mystic).



This would limit what snerts and jackasses (Klur) could do to dirsupt the usefulness of the portals.



I said this on thoomcare, but will repeate it here. There is a big motherfucking difference between moving the portals to a place that you like and think they are useful (I like KI of course), and trying to move the portals to somewhere that makes the useless or a depart because you are throwing a hissy fit that they dont go where you want them to, or because you cant control them and want to limit access to places because you have a small dick.



Michael

Nightbird wrote:some disruptive snert, or the Pogues.

Brought to you by the Puddlebian Department of Redundancy Dept. (Puddleby Office)

Drablak wrote:
I think the main argument is that for a vast majority of exiles there is no other way to get onto the cloud. Once the dark cloud cooperates a little and is more often seen over the mirror and people have a way to get onto the cloud that doesn't require one of the teleporters...

The problem is not just getting onto the cloud, but getting off as well. Each mirror that exits the cloud leads to one end of the current transporter. I would rather see the transporters and the cloud exit separate.



Movable transporters are going to be moved. OOC: I know Puddleby is supposed to be one happy family, but a little conflict isn't so bad. I think movable transporters are fair game for everyone. I prefer to have the transporter on the cloud, myself, but I'd prefer even more that the cloud exits be divorced from the transporters, or at least another mirror exit added that goes back to the mirror or town.

Drablak wrote:
Also remember that it's not only CWs, there is good exp and challenge there for a number of exiles. I think it was meant to be a hunting ground for a level of exiles which do not go to KI or OOB, and they can't go to the cloud anymore. There isn't an alternative, like there is for KI or OOB.

As if the level of exiles that enjoy the cloud as a challenge didn't have sf, nwf, pass', gmv, noth, DI, TI, CI, ASH, E forest, brambles, beaches, marsh, savannah, farms, noids, baby noids, lp, rc, plains, pods, and nf to hunt. All of which have little or no time commitment.

What really ticks me off is people calling high level hunters selfish for putting one end of the portal on ki or FH when they have TONS of areas they can have fun in. Do they not fucking understand how frustrating it is to only have 2-3 areas that are still fun, all of which require large time commitments?



I have no idea what to do about the portals. People like klur enjoy pissing other people off. There needs to be a way to prevent the portals from being moved to instant death areas and places they can't be used in (so people couldn't screw others on the other end of the portal). However, the portals do need to be moved through the ocean, so maybe have them reset back to their last, portable position when they stop moveing for a little while. Also, give mystics the ability to locate them, so they can't be hidden.



I don't even want to talk about what Klur did (pissed off almost everyone). If PM has any self respect they'll kick his ass out. I can't describe how angry it makes me when someone does something that has zero benefit for everyone. A player like that should be kicked out of CL entirely. What makes Klur any different from Zaroff (who got kicked out of CL)?

-Sabbit

I'm reposting my comments from Thoomcare here, since the discussion is taking place in two places:





Having one end of the portals in the lava is extremely rude. It benefits no one except perhaps the sick people who brough it there, most likely in the hopes of causing unsuspecting exiles to fall and possibly depart. Whether they had the right to move it there is another issue. Usually you have the right to be rude, but that doesn't mean it isn't bad behaviour.



Having one end in town and one end on the cloud benefits people like me. Contrary to what some people seem to think, the new cloud is a fabulous hunting ground. For a small party of folks in the high 2nd circle range its a great place to hunt and fills a much-needed niche for those who are rapidly outgrowing South Forest. Having one end in town and one end in the trainers grotto benefits 3rd and 4th circle fighters and those who want to hunt the orga outback. Having one end in town and one end on KI benefits the elite exiles who hunt KI regularly.



Having the portals in any one place means that they only benefit one of these groups, but having them move around too quickly is frustrating to people who were planning on them being in a certain place. I'd like to propose that perhaps a polite convention might be to move them once per chaos storm. Since the chaos storms may move them anyway, whomever gets their act together first can move the portals to their desired location and expect to have them stay there until the next storm. The only caveat on the location would be that one end should be in a relatively safe place near town, and the other end should be in as safe a location as possible in an area useful to a range of exiles, and not in the same place as it was in the previous storm. That way the portal will be of use to a wide variety of exiles, the location will rotate through a few different useful locations, and those who take the initiative to move the portals will get a decent benefit from their hard work.



What I am proposing is just a polite convention, but if people agree with the reasoning behind it I think it will catch on. We have other etiquette rules that almost everyone follows, like not joining hunts uninvited and not trying to hunt the same area another group is hunting in. If people like my proposal and adopt it then I think we can deal with the folks who want to spoil the portals for everyone the same way we deal with people who do other rude things.





On Thoomcare Mjollnir raised some valid concerns about the enfocability of etiquette rules, and the fact that the folks who moved the portal to the lava would be unlikely to follow them.



I agree that the etiquette convention that I'm proposing would not be followed by the folks who moved the portal to the lava. As far as I can tell that was done by attention seeking bullies who enjoy being rude. I do think that the vast majority of the exiles would agree to the convention. There are penalties that can be imposed for breaking etiquette rule. Personally I'm planning on /ignoring those responsible since its clearly attention that they're seeking. I know they couldn't care less, I'm just some random newbie to them. If its 80% of town that's ignoring them, though, they might loose interest in leaving the library.



If the portals don't change with the chaos storms that's a bit of a wrinkle. Klur and Reye keep saying we should just move them if we don't like them where they are. I think this just proves they are bullies. I have 735 ranks. I'd like to see them try with four people who have that amount of training. Still, I have confidence that some group with super healers will move the portal out of the lava. I do think that moving them once per chaos storm is a reasonable interval.





I don't think asking for an act of the gods to change the behavior of the portals is the answer. Its the behaviour of certain exiles that is a problem. I Klur and Reye can't get a rise out of anyone anymore they may quit leaving the library.

My 2c:



Leave the portals, maybe add more as HGM seems to suggest may happen. But leave them as flexible and versitle as they are. As I read over things here, on the NG, TMN, etc, I'm amazed at the inconsitencies. I can't imagine what the GM's have had to deal w/ over the last 5+ years!



We ask for WWE (world wide/wrecking events) and complain that there aren't enough tools for the players to create their own. That the "sandbox only has a few grains of sand and no shovels" etc etc. Yet when the GM's do implement tools to allow the players more control of our environment, people balk!



I find it absolutely awesome what we can do w/ the portals. It's generating a helluva lot more interest and talk than has been seen in quite a while. Enjoy it people, you're tired of the same old boring routine, enjoy something new! Don't get all freaked out about it and start attacking the clickers behind the char's. It's all fine and good if you're char thinks it's a serious injustice, etc. But as a player, look at it as an opportunity!

Mjollnir wrote:Im not normally given to ranting but i have to say Cloud GM IMO the cloud sucks....

(snippage)

...But while the content of the cloud is great for the most part, the entrance and exits make the cloud suck badly.

And on a strictly OOC note, let me say that the cloud totally rocks! Its a great new hunting area for the mid-second to low-third circle hunters. Looks like CloudGM has clued into the fact that despite the presence of other hunting areas for this level (which tend to be over-hunted btw) CL has a lot of trouble retaining exiles at that level. (Has anyone seen Catlin or Finnian lately?) Its a really shame that someone decided to make this area unusable without a depart just because they could, but I'm guessing they weren't too worried about retaining "newbie" players who weren't around for the ripture war and haven't made 4th circle yet.